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49  Runes and Lore / Users Reviews / My rune library on: March 17, 2011, 12:51:38 PM
I'll have to start on some reviews soon, but in the meantime, here's everything I have, in no particular order except how I recall them as I type this!
Share time - let's see what you have as well.

BTW, I have two little rune books that came with sets of runes, I won't include these as they're much akin to the LWB - "Little White Book" one gets with tarot cards.

  • Practical Guide to Runes - Lisa Peschel
  • Complete Illustrated Guide to Runes - Nigel Pennick
  • Runecaster's Handbook - Edred Thorrson
  • Rudimentary Runelore - Steven Pollington
  • The Rune Primer - Sweyn Plowright
  • Book of Runes - Francis Melville
  • Nordic Runes - Rhys Mountfort
  • Taking up the Runes - Diana Paxson
  • Introduction to the English Runes  - R. I. Page

As of this writing, I'm currently reading Rudimentary Runelore, which is excellent, by the way. 
I haven't yet read "Taking Up the Runes" or "Intro to English Runes", the latter of which is a wholly scholarly work.
Everything else has been read cover to cover.
I can't say any of them are bad, though I'm most fond of: The Rune Primer, Rudimentary Runelore, Complete Illustrated Guide to Runes, and Nordic Runes.
I used to have one that was given to me, called "The Celtic Runes"; actually, the runes covered in this book were the Anglo-Saxon Futhork, which was a bit different than your normal Elder Futhark, but anyway, there never was any such thing as "Celtic" runes.  Needless to say, I threw that one out in the garbage where it belonged -another new age author trying to cash in on runes and understanding nothing of what they were writing about.



50  Runes and Lore / Users Reviews / Re: Book: Raido by Jennifer Smith on: March 17, 2011, 12:31:02 PM
Who's the author? I don't think I've heard of this one.

My first rune book was also one that came with a set of clay runes (which I still use), the author's name was Jonathan Dee;  I'm guessing that's a pseudonym though.  It was a decent introduction,  but had some strange interpretations, here and there, for some of the runes.
51  The Elder Futhark / Perthro / Re: Peorth on: March 15, 2011, 06:45:28 PM
I've come across a few different takes on Perthro/Peorth, with different determinations.
A lot of authors ascribe the shape of it to that of a lot cup (on it's side, as though dice were being tossed out).
Nordic/Anglo culture was quite fond of gambling and games of chance apparently, judging from their literature.
They used deer or sheep knuckle bones for dice.

So mostly I've read/heard it linked to games of chance, and by extension, also mystery, fate, chance, and Wyrd. As Freya Aswynn says, it is the rune of the runes, and why no "blank" rune is necessary.
Who knows how the dice will roll?
I don't always necessarily agree with her views, but this one works for me.
I came across this page a few months back, you might or might not find it resonates:
http://runesecrets.com/rune-meanings/perthro-rune-meaning-analysis
http://runesecrets.com/rune-meanings/perthro
52  The Elder Futhark / Thurisaz / Re: Thurisaz on: March 06, 2011, 03:58:13 PM
You beat me to it.   Wink
This is another one of those tricky runes where the poems don't all agree, and I wanted to tackle this one next.

What most people agree on, though not all people, is that this is not generally a pleasant rune to see; it typically denotes some kind of brush with overwhelming force or resistance. Unlike Hagalaz, which I think is seen to have a silver lining, no such lining exists with Thurisaz.
 
It's interesting that you find a feminine connection, WN, because the other poems, though different in their primary interpretation, do make specific mention of women; but not in a pleasant manner:

    Norwegian

        Giant causes anguish to women;
        misfortune makes few men cheerful.

    Icelandic

        Giant

        torture of women
        and cliff-dweller
        and husband of a giantess (Vardhrun).


The other poems refer to not "Thorn", but "Thurs", meaning giant.  The Jotuns, or race of giants, were the big bads of Nordic mythology. Why giants would pick on woman specifically though.. I have no idea. The Aesir God Thor (AKA Thunor, Thonar, or Þonar,) often did battle with the giants, and protected mankind. To do so, he wielded his magic hammer Mjöllnir as his weapon.


With all this in mind, people see all kinds of things in Thurisaz. Here's my take.
For some, it is indeed a thorn.  Makes sense, it sure looks like one, too. I've always leaned more towards the OERP when if differs from the other two.

For others, they say it represents Mjollnir, Thor's hammer, the weapon used to battle the giants. From a profile view, it looks a bit like that. This makes sense to me as well.  There have been numerous pendants dug up with an astonishing likeness, such as this one:

Drawing of a silver Thor's hammer amulet found in Fitjar, Hordaland, Norway

For some who see it this way, Thurisaz has a positive connotation, as they see the rune as a protector or wielder of great power.  Personally, however, I have issues with this;  the rune in this context literally means "giant", not giant-killer ("Thor"); if it really meant "Thor", it would've simply been called that, I think, and the poems would've said so as well. 
Thurs and Thor may sound similar enough to us, as speakers of Modern English, that we might imagine they have a common root, and mean the same thing, but they are in fact not cognate, according to the linguistic references I've read. (There is a counterpoint to this however*)
Another point that can't be ignored is that other Gods, such as Tyr and Ing, do in fact have runes named directly after them (Tiwaz and Ingwaz) and many assume Ansuz refers to Odin as well. So if the rune really meant Thunor or Thor, why is it not simply called that?  Also, reading the NRP and the IRP,  it clearly is referring to the nasty business of giants, pain, and misfortune, not singing the praises of a god-hero. Maybe they just decided that the easiest shape to represent giants was the symbol of the one who defeated them.

If I'm not mistaken, some swords and helmets uncovered in archeological digs have shown the rune engraved in them,  along with the more common Tiwaz, which was used as a protective amulet or talisman of sorts. If the rune was pure misfortune, why would they do that?  And yet, none of the poems have anything very positive to say about it. Perhaps the wielder of the sword or whatever felt the rune would give them the strength of a giant, or the resistance of a wall of thorns.
Another possibility is that the rune, and the amulet representing Thor (or Mjollnir), were simply considered two different things, despite the relatively identical shape.

Back to your original thought, another interesting theory I read is that Thurisaz may be a phallic representation. This is especially interesting considering that it's shape is complementary to Berkana, a feminine rune.  In this case, I think one would have to take the meaning of "giant" with a large grain of salt and a sense of humor!  It may be convenient that the shapes are complementary, but at this point, pending more evidence, I don't see that as anything more than coincidence.


* I did a little more digging:  Thors' name derives from Þórr, Thunor, and Thonar; or more accurately, Þonar (the letter "Þ" called "eth" is a defunct letter from the old Anglo-Saxon alphabet, and his name was later anglicized to THunor).  Þonar ultimately derives from Old German Þunraz, which means "Thunder". ("Thunor" sounds like our word thunder, not much has changed!) The "n" seems to be initially important here, but was dropped eventually anyway. Despite having the "n" or not, looking directly at the original old Norse, and Icelandic poems, Thunor or Thor and it's variants are not found, instead, they say quite directly, "Þurs", with a u and an s.

But here's where it gets sticky. To add to any already existing confusion, we get our modern day of the week "Thursday" from "Thunor's daeg", or "Thor's day".. and yet today we spell it "Thurs",  just like the rune.  I am dying to know how, why, and when this happened. I think it might answer a lot of questions. So is it really "Giant's Day", and not Thor's day??  Or is the literary source I read that claims Thurs and Thunor are not cognate wrong? I have yet to find an academic source that explains this.

Thurisaz is another rune, therefore, that I can't quite get my head around. There's so much contradictory evidence.

53  Runes and Lore / The Eddas and Sagas / Re: The Sigrdrifumol on: March 01, 2011, 07:44:06 AM
Ansuz as a container ?- that's interesting, I'm curious of the source or inspiration behind that.
I have often seen Perthro interpreted as a container, usually as "lot cup".  (I wonder exactly what they used for lots in gambling?)
54  Runes and Lore / The Eddas and Sagas / Re: The Sigrdrifumol on: February 28, 2011, 04:34:52 PM
Ah, found this on "ale-runes":  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alu_%28runic%29
Possibly it's an amulet comprised of 3 runes, not just a single rune. 



"ALU"

Here's an excerpt:
Quote
Alu is a Germanic charm word appearing on numerous Elder Futhark found in Central and Northern Europe dating from between 200 and 800 CE. The word – the most common of the early runic charm words[1] – usually appears either alone (such as on the Elgesem runestone) or as part of an apparent formula (such as on the Lindholm "amulet" (DR 261) from Scania, Sweden).

The term alu is sometimes abbreviated, encrypted or written with grammatical expansion. The origin and meaning of the word are matters of dispute, though a general agreement exists among scholars that the word either represents amulet magic or is a metaphor (or metonym) for it.[2] Usage of the word did not survive long after the Migration Period, possibly as a result of Christianization.[3]

Alu may have lived on beyond this period with an increasing association with ale or beer, appearing in stanzas 7 and 19 of the Old Norse poem Sigrdrífumál, compiled in the 13th century Poetic Edda, where knowledge of invocative "ale runes" (Old Norse ölrúnar) is imparted by the Valkyrie Sigrdrífa. Theories have been suggested that the unique term ealuscerwen (possibly "pouring away of alu"), used to describe grief or terror in the epic poem Beowulf, recorded around the 9th to 11th century, may be directly related.


Interesting..
55  Runes and Lore / The Eddas and Sagas / Re: The Sigrdrifumol on: February 28, 2011, 11:34:17 AM
Nauthiz certainly fits with the ale ruins as it is generally thought of as the rune of resistance and or deliverance

Speech runes I would say Wunjo and possibly Othala

I look at Nauthiz as "need", or necessity, a harsh lesson in reality.    I guess you could use a drink after that though.
Unless Ale translates to "ill".  Usually "mead" is the alcoholic beverage of choice mentioned in these things.


I chose Ansuz for "speech runes" because of the OERP:

"The mouth is the source of all language,
a pillar of wisdom and comfort to wise men,
a blessing and a joy to every knight."

Though.. funny as it seems, the NRP calls Ansuz "Estuary", (the way of all journeys) thus the mouth of a river, not a person. It's referring to beginnings, sources.  A quite different kind of mouth.  Funny how language can do that; not one of the 3 poems really quite agree on this one, in a literal sense.

56  The Elder Futhark / Isa / Re: Isa - Impressions on: February 27, 2011, 11:41:10 AM
I've given this a fair amount of thought:  why is there a rune for ice, and a rune for hail (Hagalaz), but none for snow?  Or for that matter, none for cold itself?

Perhaps because ice & hail are/can be destructive, whereas snow (unless you count avalanches) & cold aren't necessarily so? Snow & cold are normal; and unless extreme, rivers, (large) lakes & oceans are still navigable. Ice & hail cause real damage.

Yagh!  Quotes within quotes don't render very clearly here, do they?  I'll have to figure out how to fix that.

Anyway..

Snow can be quite destructive too though, for example, if enough weight gathers on a roof, the dwelling is done for; enough of it can also severely restrict mobility and gathering of food; or, as you said, in an avalanche -it could wipe out an entire village.

But also, interestingly, hail is referred to in all three poems as "cold grain", which has a positive connotation -when it melts, it turns to water. "Grain" being the key word here, as in seed, being that it waters the fields, or supplies the rivers and wells.
The more I think about it, the more I think Hail might be a catch-all term including snow too, but a linguist would know for sure.
But I tend to view Hagalaz as something that is a temporary burden or hurdle, but which can be turned to your advantage (it has a silver lining).

In the OERP hail is also the "sickness of serpents", a kenning alluding to the fact that winter is not kind to cold blooded creatures. 
That also seems to be a good thing, and though some pagan cultures venerated the serpent, that bit was probably added later from Christian influences. 

57  The Elder Futhark / Isa / Re: Isa - Impressions on: February 26, 2011, 06:30:31 PM
Overall, I see that as "stasis" more so than contraction.  Contraction is small in scale, not always that noticeable, unless, as I mentioned earlier, one considers the waterways -rivers, lakes, and the ocean. Then, yes, you're quite restricted as to where you go, compared to summertime. But that is a form of stasis too.  But the OERP, at any rate, barely mentions either.

I've given this a fair amount of thought:  why is there a rune for ice, and a rune for hail (Hagalaz), but none for snow?  Or for that matter, none for cold itself? Surely, cold is the prevailing theme here. But I didn't want to attribute too many things for Isa to cold, because Isa is ice, which has the quality of being cold, but is not coldness itself.  I sometimes wonder why they didn't have a rune for "cold".
Ah well, there's always the danger of missing the forest for the trees as well as not seeing the trees for the forest.

I've also wondered about their definition of hail;  might that have been, essentially, the same as "snow"?   If so, I can see how and even why they would differentiate the two:  hail or snow affects mostly land, whereas ice would affect mostly their seafaring enterprises.  Both were extremely important, between farming and fishing and transportation.

And I'm finding it near impossible to discuss one rune without bringing in another!


58  Runes and Lore / Resources / Re: Glossary - Dictionary on: February 26, 2011, 09:29:45 AM
Also, "ken" has sometimes been linked with "Kenaz" or "Cen", specifically by those who view the torch (OERP) as a symbol of knowledge, insight, and seeing. 
It may be primarily Scottish now, but it's origins are from Middle English "Kennen", Old English "Cennan", and Old Norse "Kenna", so that association seems viable.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ken

Not Kaun though, of course.  Wink
59  Runes and Lore / Resources / Glossary - Dictionary on: February 25, 2011, 05:39:27 PM
A good many of the archaic words you find in Norse or Anglo Saxon literature (such as Beowulf) are alien to most speakers of Modern English, so to that end, here's a list of some of the more common.
If you read through the Eddas or Sagas, it'll really help to know a few of these.
(This list will grow over time)

Glossary:

  fain:   desirous, happily, to be predisposed to  (I am fain to hit the lottery!)
  trow:  to suppose or believe
  ween: to suppose, think, or believe



Dictionary:  This is a dictionary section for modern words related to various topics here.

 Kenning:  a poetic phrase used to allude to something  (battle-sweat = blood,  bath of fishes = sea)



These can come in handy if you're looking at the rune poems in their original language:
Old English Master Glossarys

http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/engol-MG-X.html
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Bright%27s_Anglo-Saxon_Reader/Glossary



60  General Category / Introductions / Re: Hi on: February 25, 2011, 04:54:37 PM
Aww man.. lost my first member already.
Something happen with Gretchen over at the other forum?  She felt she didn't belong somehow and deleted her account before I could talk to her. 

Gretch - if you read this, you're welcome back anytime.
61  The Elder Futhark / Ehwaz / Re: Ehwaz Interpretation on: February 25, 2011, 04:40:29 PM
this part of your quote Grymdycchr - 'Laguz is, after all, shaped like one half of Ehwaz.  Only..  Laguz means water or lake, not horse' - came to mind when Mcdee posted 'Two warriors on horse back face to face' (got me thinking about reflections (mirror image rune symbols).

Ehwaz might also represent a horse drinking from water (a lake?), so one half is actually Laguz, and Laguz is showing the reflection of the other half - the horse in Ehwaz.

I know, I am making a real meal of that one!  But I am going to have a good look at both to see if this link shows up between the two poems.

going to work zee little grey cells!

Well.. that's creative, I'll give you that!   Cool

But one thing: the reflection itself would nonetheless be a reflection of laguz, not a reflection of the horse -split in half, ehwaz looks like two laguz (water) symbols.

BTW, speaking of Laguz, in a different part of the forum, mcdee2005 posted the Sigrdrifumal, and within it, I got the impression  that maybe Laguz's shape may represent a rudder, or as it's called, a "steering blade". That seems reasonable.

But I'm still not completely convinced that the shapes necessarily relate to the meanings (at least, not in all cases), because -according to the best current scholarly research- the runes weren't created in a total, originating vacuum, so to speak, in Scandinavia or Germania, but ultimately were inspired by, or modeled from, possibly either the Etruscan alphabet or the Latin alphabet, among other candidates.
The "L" of the Etruscan alphabet is very similar to Laguz, for instance. it just has a little bend in the horizontal stave.  So we have to wonder if some of the original shapes and therefore meanings came from those cultures, though some may have been altered to fit the Germanic/Norse culture, over time.  No way to really know, sadly.



62  Runes and Lore / The Eddas and Sagas / Re: The Sigrdrifumol on: February 25, 2011, 02:40:35 PM
Thanks for posting that mcdee!

Couple of things I see discuss worthy right off the bat:

One - I should make a glossary here for Old English, Middle English, and Norse terms, lol.
Words one often sees in these stories are those like, "fain", which means "predisposed or likely to, wanting to"; and then there's "trow" and "ween", meaning to believe or to suppose.


Very notable here are the few runes that are mentioned, as many do not quite match up to the modern accepted interpretations.
This is quite a mystery that bears some real contemplation!
In short:

Ale-runes   (Nauthiz is specifically mentioned.. perhaps this is the Ale rune?)
Winning-runes   (Tyr/Tiwaz)
Birth-runes   (at first I thought Berkana, but then that fits the next one too.  Ehwaz (yew) perhaps?...)
Branch-runes  (Or this might be Berkana, the Birch tree .. but perhaps Algiz?)
Waves-runes   (Laguz, presumably)
Speech-runes  (Definitely Ansuz/Os)
Thought-runes   (huh?  "keenist-minded" is mentioned  ..  Cen?  Kenaz?)


Another thing:  possibly the shape for Laguz comes from the rudder (steering blade) of a ship!   That's sorta roundabout, but I can see it.

63  Runes and Lore / The Eddas and Sagas / The Havamal on: February 24, 2011, 02:22:57 PM
The Havamal (Sayings of the High One) is one of the most famous works in the Poetic Edda, which themselves are part of a manuscript known as the Codex Regius.

The verses contained are attributed to Odin, who is known to go by many, many, names (in this case, Hávi )
It is essentially Odin's teachings and advice on ethics, conduct and wisdom.  It provides great insight into the culture.

Also contained within the Havamal itself is the Runamal, which tells the story of how Odin procured the runes.
This is followed by the Ljóðatal, a listing of 18 charms Odin knows. (It does not actually instruct you as to how to use them however, and they should not be confused with the runes)

Because the forum software is limited to 20,000 characters per post, I can't post the entire thing.
However, I have posted the last several stanzas which include the Runamal and the Ljóðatal after that.

(Here is one link of many to the entire thing)
http://www.ragweedforge.com/havamal.html



Wounded I hung on a wind-swept gallows
For nine long nights,
Pierced by a spear, pledged to Odhinn,
Offered, myself to myself
The wisest know not from whence spring
The roots of that ancient rood

They gave me no bread,
They gave me no mead,
I looked down;
with a loud cry
I took up runes;
from that tree I fell.

Nine lays of power
I learned from the famous Bolthor, Bestla' s father:
He poured me a draught of precious mead,
Mixed with magic Odrerir.

Waxed and throve well;
Word from word gave words to me,
Deed from deed gave deeds to me,

Runes you will find, and readable staves,
Very strong staves,
Very stout staves,
Staves that Bolthor stained,
Made by mighty powers,
Graven by the prophetic god,

For the gods by Odhinn, for the elves by Dain,
By Dvalin, too, for the dwarves,
By Asvid for the hateful giants,
And some I carved myself:
Thund, before man was made, scratched them,
Who rose first, fell thereafter

Know how to cut them, know how to read them,
Know how to stain them, know how to prove them,
Know how to evoke them, know how to score them,
Know how to send them" know how to send them,

Better not to ask than to over-pledge
As a gift that demands a gift"
Better not to send than to slay too many,

The first charm I know is unknown to rulers
Or any of human kind;
Help it is named,
for help it can give In hours of sorrow and anguish.

I know a second that the sons of men
Must learn who wish to be leeches.

I know a third: in the thick of battle,
If my need be great enough,
It will blunt the edges of enemy swords,
Their weapons will make no wounds.

I know a fourth:
it will free me quickly
If foes should bind me fast
With strong chains, a chant that makes Fetters spring from the feet,
Bonds burst from the hands.

I know a fifth: no flying arrow,
Aimed to bring harm to men,
Flies too fast for my fingers to catch it
And hold it in mid-air.

I know a sixth:
it will save me if a man
Cut runes on a sapling' s Roots
With intent to harm; it turns the spell;
The hater is harmed, not me.

If I see the hall
Ablaze around my bench mates,
Though hot the flames, they shall feel nothing,
If I choose to chant the spell.

I know an eighth:
that all are glad of,
Most useful to men:
If hate fester in the heart of a warrior,
It will soon calm and cure him.

I know a ninth:
when need I have
To shelter my ship on the flood,
The wind it calms, the waves it smoothes
And puts the sea to sleep,

I know a tenth:
if troublesome ghosts
Ride the rafters aloft,
I can work it so they wander astray,
Unable to find their forms,
Unable to find their homes.

I know an eleventh:
when I lead to battle Old comrades in-arms,
I have only to chant it behind my shield,
And unwounded they go to war,
Unwounded they come from war,
U unscathed wherever they are.

I know a twelfth:
If a tree bear
A man hanged in a halter,
I can carve and stain strong runes
That will cause the corpse to speak,
Reply to whatever I ask.

I know a thirteenth
if I throw a cup Of water over a warrior,
He shall not fall in the fiercest battle,
Nor sink beneath the sword,

I know a fourteenth, that few know:
If I tell a troop of warriors
About the high ones, elves and gods,
I can name them one by one.
(Few can the nit-wit name.)

I know a fifteenth,
that first Thjodrerir
Sang before Delling's doors,
Giving power to gods, prowess to elves,
Fore-sight to Hroptatyr Odhinn,

I know a sixteenth:
if I see a girl
With whom it would please me to play,
I can turn her thoughts, can touch the heart
Of any white armed woman.

I know a seventeenth:
if I sing it,
the young Girl will be slow to forsake me.

I know an eighteenth that I never tell
To maiden or wife of man,
A secret I hide from all
Except the love who lies in my arms,
Or else my own sister.

To learn to sing them, Loddfafnir,
Will take you a long time,
Though helpful they are if you understand them,
Useful if you use them,
Needful if you need them.

The Wise One has spoken words in the hall,
Needful for men to know,
Unneedful for trolls to know:

Hail to the speaker,
Hail to the knower,
Joy to him who has understood,
Delight to those who have listened.
64  The Elder Futhark / Ehwaz / Re: Ehwaz Interpretation on: February 24, 2011, 01:52:55 PM
Anythings a possibility, we'll probably never knew what someone had in mind when they worked on those shapes.  It doesn't help that the actual origin of the runes remains an educated best guess at best. Their origin may have more bearing on the shapes than the meanings, which could've been added later; or not -again, we may never know. Not that it should dissuade anyone from pondering them just the same.

My personal feeling is, though (and this of course is just me), if any rune represents two of anything face to face, it's Mannaz, which essentially resembles two Wunjos facing off.  We know that Wunjo is "joy", and also that the OERP Mannaz poem says "Man is a joy unto his fellow". 
So, I sort of see Mannaz like two people, stick figures, turned sideways, head to head, if you think of the top part as a head.

It's always interesting to look back at scholarly sources for other runes (there are Hungarian and Turkish runes, among others) or even other alphabets such as the Etruscan and find the similarities. Some of the shapes could even ultimately hail from ancient Greek, which in turn evolved from the original Phoenician.

BTW, I found a front view of a horse to illustrate my earlier idea. (I should be covered here by the Fair Use clause of copyright law)
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