Pages: [1]   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Thurisaz  (Read 10873 times)
winter night
Runester
***
Posts: 52


View Profile
« on: March 06, 2011, 01:42:40 PM »

The thorn is exceedingly sharp,
an evil thing for any knight to touch,   
uncommonly severe on all
who sit among them

Again, my first attempt at reading this with its old original poem  Smiley

I don't know about anyone else, my first read of this gets me thinking its relating to women? (thorns that embelish and protect a rose - the rose is often linked to women in history)

Its a real kick-ass kind of rune this one, there is a real sense that you are opening pandoras box if you are lured in by the rose in the first place.  Sort of like if you take on a challange which presents itself, knowing full well the result is going to be bad, then you only have yourself to blame when it all hits the fan.

I am hoping you might jump in with a few nicer alternative theories as I am reading this one as a bit of a bad rune.  (and still think there is a heavy 'female' influence behind all the evil stuff too! 

I would like to know if anyone has drawn this rune and 'read' it in a good way?   Cheesy

thanks!
winter
Logged
Grymdycche
Administrator
Vitki
*****
Posts: 237



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2011, 03:58:13 PM »

You beat me to it.   Wink
This is another one of those tricky runes where the poems don't all agree, and I wanted to tackle this one next.

What most people agree on, though not all people, is that this is not generally a pleasant rune to see; it typically denotes some kind of brush with overwhelming force or resistance. Unlike Hagalaz, which I think is seen to have a silver lining, no such lining exists with Thurisaz.
 
It's interesting that you find a feminine connection, WN, because the other poems, though different in their primary interpretation, do make specific mention of women; but not in a pleasant manner:

    Norwegian

        Giant causes anguish to women;
        misfortune makes few men cheerful.

    Icelandic

        Giant

        torture of women
        and cliff-dweller
        and husband of a giantess (Vardhrun).


The other poems refer to not "Thorn", but "Thurs", meaning giant.  The Jotuns, or race of giants, were the big bads of Nordic mythology. Why giants would pick on woman specifically though.. I have no idea. The Aesir God Thor (AKA Thunor, Thonar, or Þonar,) often did battle with the giants, and protected mankind. To do so, he wielded his magic hammer Mjöllnir as his weapon.


With all this in mind, people see all kinds of things in Thurisaz. Here's my take.
For some, it is indeed a thorn.  Makes sense, it sure looks like one, too. I've always leaned more towards the OERP when if differs from the other two.

For others, they say it represents Mjollnir, Thor's hammer, the weapon used to battle the giants. From a profile view, it looks a bit like that. This makes sense to me as well.  There have been numerous pendants dug up with an astonishing likeness, such as this one:

Drawing of a silver Thor's hammer amulet found in Fitjar, Hordaland, Norway

For some who see it this way, Thurisaz has a positive connotation, as they see the rune as a protector or wielder of great power.  Personally, however, I have issues with this;  the rune in this context literally means "giant", not giant-killer ("Thor"); if it really meant "Thor", it would've simply been called that, I think, and the poems would've said so as well. 
Thurs and Thor may sound similar enough to us, as speakers of Modern English, that we might imagine they have a common root, and mean the same thing, but they are in fact not cognate, according to the linguistic references I've read. (There is a counterpoint to this however*)
Another point that can't be ignored is that other Gods, such as Tyr and Ing, do in fact have runes named directly after them (Tiwaz and Ingwaz) and many assume Ansuz refers to Odin as well. So if the rune really meant Thunor or Thor, why is it not simply called that?  Also, reading the NRP and the IRP,  it clearly is referring to the nasty business of giants, pain, and misfortune, not singing the praises of a god-hero. Maybe they just decided that the easiest shape to represent giants was the symbol of the one who defeated them.

If I'm not mistaken, some swords and helmets uncovered in archeological digs have shown the rune engraved in them,  along with the more common Tiwaz, which was used as a protective amulet or talisman of sorts. If the rune was pure misfortune, why would they do that?  And yet, none of the poems have anything very positive to say about it. Perhaps the wielder of the sword or whatever felt the rune would give them the strength of a giant, or the resistance of a wall of thorns.
Another possibility is that the rune, and the amulet representing Thor (or Mjollnir), were simply considered two different things, despite the relatively identical shape.

Back to your original thought, another interesting theory I read is that Thurisaz may be a phallic representation. This is especially interesting considering that it's shape is complementary to Berkana, a feminine rune.  In this case, I think one would have to take the meaning of "giant" with a large grain of salt and a sense of humor!  It may be convenient that the shapes are complementary, but at this point, pending more evidence, I don't see that as anything more than coincidence.


* I did a little more digging:  Thors' name derives from Þórr, Thunor, and Thonar; or more accurately, Þonar (the letter "Þ" called "eth" is a defunct letter from the old Anglo-Saxon alphabet, and his name was later anglicized to THunor).  Þonar ultimately derives from Old German Þunraz, which means "Thunder". ("Thunor" sounds like our word thunder, not much has changed!) The "n" seems to be initially important here, but was dropped eventually anyway. Despite having the "n" or not, looking directly at the original old Norse, and Icelandic poems, Thunor or Thor and it's variants are not found, instead, they say quite directly, "Þurs", with a u and an s.

But here's where it gets sticky. To add to any already existing confusion, we get our modern day of the week "Thursday" from "Thunor's daeg", or "Thor's day".. and yet today we spell it "Thurs",  just like the rune.  I am dying to know how, why, and when this happened. I think it might answer a lot of questions. So is it really "Giant's Day", and not Thor's day??  Or is the literary source I read that claims Thurs and Thunor are not cognate wrong? I have yet to find an academic source that explains this.

Thurisaz is another rune, therefore, that I can't quite get my head around. There's so much contradictory evidence.

Logged

Svöl Gunnþra Einarr
Seeker
*
Posts: 8



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2011, 01:26:28 PM »

Thurisaz. Quite an intriguing rune indeed. Though all runes are quite fascinating to study and work with, I'm for some reason drawn to this particular rune kind of like a moth to the light. Well, let's take a look at the fundamentals.

"Thurisaz: (TH: Thorn or a Giant.) Reactive force, directed force of destruction and defense, conflict. Instinctual will, vital eroticism, regenerative catalyst. A tendency toward change. Catharsis, purging, cleansing fire. Male sexuality, fertilization. (Thorr, the Thunder god, was of Giant stock.)Thurisaz Reversed or Merkstave: Danger, defenselessness, compulsion, betrayal, dullness. Evil, malice, hatred, torment, spite, lies. A bad man or woman. Rape?" - http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/meanings.html

I had this rune tattooed into my upper arm along with a Tiwaz rune back in early December due to intentions of enlisting into the US Marine Corps in some months from now and that I'll need all the strength and valor that I possibly can. Since then, I've been faced with a couple of serious situations that could've ended pretty badly on either my end and/ or the other person(s) involved. I've had some pretty convincing moments in the first half of this year alone to tell me that the runes are more powerful than I thought they were (I'm an initiate as of October). Anyway, let's say that above description for the Thurisaz scores a home run dead on and mind you, I haven't been meditating on the description, so this is not a result of delusion. Delusion is insanity. But perhaps because this is my ruling rune as well. This rune has somehow been a part of me all along.

As for the confusion, I profoundly believe Thurisaz to have an inherent connotation with Thor in every aspect with a little connotation with the Giants, but first and foremost Thor. How so? Well, for one, each day of the week is named after a certain god. Thursday is Thur's (or Thor's) day as Wednesday is Wotan's/ Woden's day and Sunday is Sunna's/ Sol's day.
Logged
midnightblue
Seeker
*
Posts: 8


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2011, 03:20:55 PM »

The thorn is exceedingly sharp,
an evil thing for any knight to touch,   
uncommonly severe on all
who sit among them

Again, my first attempt at reading this with its old original poem  Smiley

I don't know about anyone else, my first read of this gets me thinking its relating to women? (thorns that embelish and protect a rose - the rose is often linked to women in history)

Its a real kick-ass kind of rune this one, there is a real sense that you are opening pandoras box if you are lured in by the rose in the first place.  Sort of like if you take on a challange which presents itself, knowing full well the result is going to be bad, then you only have yourself to blame when it all hits the fan.

I am hoping you might jump in with a few nicer alternative theories as I am reading this one as a bit of a bad rune.  (and still think there is a heavy 'female' influence behind all the evil stuff too! 

I would like to know if anyone has drawn this rune and 'read' it in a good way?   Cheesy

thanks!
winter

I thought I would come back to the rose idea.  The rose itself is feminine but I think the thorn is masculine, it is the protector of the rose.  Almost like protection but more primal as I feel a jealous streak through it as well, like a man getting angry because another man tries to steal his woman.

I see it as a warning, to re-think my plans as my current course could lead me to bring down the "wrath of the gods."

I haven't actually meditated on this rune yet but those are my initial thoughts based on what I have read here.
Logged
mcdee2005
Seeker
*
Posts: 13



View Profile
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2011, 10:41:26 AM »

This is not the first time that I have come across the association of Thurisaz with women, and the deeper one meditates on this the clearer the association becomes.

Let us take all three Poems

Old English

The thorn is exceedingly Sharp
An evil thing for any knight to touch
Uncommonly severe on all
Who sit among them.

Norwegian

Giant causes anguish to women
Misfortune makes few men cheerful

Icelandic

Giant
Torture of women
And cliff dweller
And husband of a giantess ( Vardhrun)


At first only the Norwegian and Icelandic poems agree on the suffering of women, however if we take the Thorn as being that of a rose as Winter night has suggested, then we have the a very ancient symbol of the feminine and thus a veiled reference to women.

Now given that the reference is to the thorn and not to the rose it’s self we can draw the conclusion that it refers some hidden evil veiled by the beauty of the Rose.

I know that this does not look as if it will tie up with the Norwegian or Icelandic but I am getting there (I Hope!!)

Given the now fragile link I have suggested (Evil, Torture, Anguish) I will try to explain this further.

In the book of Enoch the Watchers (Angels or minor Gods) took for themselves wives.

Enoch Ch. 6 1 – 3
“And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. And the watchers, the children of heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: ‘come let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children’

Enoch Ch.7 1 - 3
“ And all the watchers took unto themselves wives, each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. And they became pregnant, and they bare great Giants”

Here we can see the link between the Giants and women.  This may also somewhat explain the Torture and Anguish in the Norwegian and Icelandic prose as a reference to the pain of childbirth in spawning these Giants

Further with these women whom the watchers have taken for wives we see that they are taught charms and enchantments and the cutting of roots. This may be the Thorn that is extremely sharp from the rose that is beautiful.


We also know that Thurisaz is associated with Thor, the enemy of the Giants (Thurses or Etins) Thor was a hero to peoples of both Iceland and Norway and therefore the Knight in the Old English would allude to the same thing.  We have to look at how things were in those times. The Knight would be the hero figure, Giants would have been seen as monstrous creatures and thus the “an evil thing for any knight to touch”

It would be foolish of me to expect you all to draw the same conclusions as me as each individual rune is open to personal interpretation but I hope that so far I may have been able to cast some light on the similarities between all three prose.

Going back to the original post by Winter Night

I would tend to agree in the fact that it is “a kick ass “Rune

Thurisaz, as I see it, is a force of defense given it’s association with the thorn. In ancient times the likes of Roses (these would have looked very different to todays varieties), hawthorn etc with there thorny stems were used to surround ancient  positions of importance as a means of defense much like the moat around a castle.

On a side note Thurisaz is also connected to Thunar the god that protects sacred enclosures

It could also indicate destruction and / or decay given its links with the Thurses (Giants) who were constantly battling with the gods. I have also read that the Thurses were supposedly very wise.

Given it’s phallic shape however it is not surprising that it may symbolize the regeneration and fertilization of something that has been previously destroyed such as ones self esteem after a troublesome relationship for instance

It would really depend on the questions that you were seeking to answer how you would read this rune and you would need to take into account its relationship to the other runes in the cast

Generally I see this rune as a point to which one must reflect on what got you to this point and a warning to seek advise before continuing along your course. Weigh up everything very carefully .
Depending on its relationship and position among the other rune it may well indicate a change in circumstance for the better or some useful learning in some specific area.

Magikally I tend to use it for defense and preparedness.
Logged
midnightblue
Seeker
*
Posts: 8


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2011, 02:55:25 AM »

I have been wondering if in fact the Old English poem has been changed.  I have seen some evidence that some other runes were changed by Christians so that they were more in line with Christian teaching, Thurisaz may be one of them especially as the rune is phallic and possibly refers to a mythology that they don't agree with.

I think I am going to have to do some research into the poems and their history to discover the truth behind such conflicting ideas (not overly conflicting as they carry roughly the same meaning but conflicting in the sense that they allegedly describe two very different things.)
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
Print
 
Jump to: