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Author Topic: Ehwaz Interpretation  (Read 13321 times)
Mountain Witch
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« on: February 22, 2011, 04:12:22 PM »

OK, Grym, you asked for it:

One has to remember that back when the poems were written, a man without a horse was a nobody. And a man's horse was his best friend. Hell, horses were better taken care of than women or kids! Horses were trained to work as a team if harnessed to a cart; a battle horse was trained to knee commands, leaving the rider's hands free for sword & shield. If one thinks about it, conversation among the wealthy would have included horses (like breeding & training), but also about battle & its strategy.

Therefore, I look at it in most respects as a rune of teamwork, harmony, trust; or thinking about it as 'the ability to ride a horse from one place to another', movement or progress on a situation.

That said, it can indicate current modes of transportation...cars, trucks, etc. I drew Ehwaz one morning & had car trouble. Definitely not a lot of movement (or harmony) that day! So although I usually go with the above interpretation, if I plan on driving on a day I draw Ehwaz, this interpretation is always in the back of my mind. (I work out of the house so don't always go someplace every day.)
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winter night
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« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2011, 02:32:49 AM »

good on you Mountain Witch for taking the bait!  I really like your interpretation, and I am going to have a nosy at this verse later in the day - so spooky about you having car trouble - now if you had a horse you would nave been sorted! Wink
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Grymdycche
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« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2011, 10:14:11 AM »

Taking the bait?  lol 

I agree, without a horse, you were a no one.  Which was most people.  Few of the average farmers and villagers could afford horses, though they'd have sheep, goats, maybe an ox or two for the plow.
Kings, Princes, Earls, Æthlings, Gesiths, and Thegns, on the other hand,  certainly or most likely did.

One of the areas the OERP seems to focus on here is nobility, the horse as a status symbol.
Also, apparently, a symbol of freedom. (a source of comfort to the restless)  "Ride like the wind" comes to mind.

Perhaps above all though, "a joy to princes in the presence of warriors": the horse must have also represented a degree of safety or superiority, the ability to outmaneuver, or if need be, flee, in times of war - which was pretty common.  Calvary were regarded as fearsome to the foot warrior, and in fact, in the Battle of Hastings, one of the reasons William the Conqueror won against Anglo-Saxon King Harold Godwinson is that Harold had only foot soldiers.  (So one wonders if the poem wasn't "touched up" a bit after 1066 to reflect this lesson?)

Something else I'd like to touch on;  the shape for Ehwaz, quite similar to an M, has sometimes been identified as two horses facing each other, viewed from the side, touching noses. Probably many of you have read this too.  However, I think this is a modern author's take, it has no historical substantiation, and in fact I find it has some serious issues.
But for the moment, let's assume this was the case (I like to play devil's advocate with myself, this way I look fairly at all sides of a debate); logically then, would that not make Laguz a single horse facing to the right; Laguz is, after all, shaped like one half of Ehwaz.  Only..  Laguz means water or lake, not horse.  (or single horse)
Now, there is a (long) way around this,  and I imagine that it presumes that the Laguz shape represents the head carved into the prow of their ships, or even a regular high prow  (though, for one thing, not all Norse ships had these, usually just the war ships, the Drakkars); one will-known kenning for a ship is "brine-stallion" - it's in the OERP Laguz poem.
But honestly, how contrived is that?  If you try hard enough, you can connect the dots between any two unrelated things on Earth. You don't even need 6 degrees of separation in most cases. But besides that, Laguz means water, not ship.  It's a fine distinction but one nonetheless, I think the poems are quite clear on that. 
So, I don't think the rune for Ehwaz represents two of anything. It's "horse", not "horses".
 
I'm a firm believer in Occam's Razor;  the more convoluted you have to twist something to get it to fit a theory,  the more leaps of association you're forced to make to get from Point A to Point B ..or  wherever, the more likely it is that the theory is incorrect. 

If you happen to question this as I do, what else do you think the shape might represent?  A bridle or saddle perhaps? Or maybe even the image of a horse from the front, the "V" being the horses head, the two outer staves the front legs? (I rather like this, myself.)
(This leaves us begging to ask what the rune for Laguz represents, but let's leave that for the Laguz board  Smiley )

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winter night
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« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2011, 12:55:11 PM »

I'm a firm believer in Occam's Razor;  the more convoluted you have to twist something to get it to fit a theory,  the more leaps of association you're forced to make to get from Point A to Point B ..or  wherever, the more likely it is that the theory is incorrect. 

If you happen to question this as I do, what else do you think the shape might represent?  A bridle or saddle perhaps? Or maybe even the image of a horse from the front, the "V" being the horses head, the two outer staves the front legs? (I rather like this, myself.)
(This leaves us begging to ask what the rune for Laguz represents, but let's leave that for the Laguz board  Smiley )

Occam's Razor was the blade I was trying to remember the name of in my other post – spooky!  But I agree, in balance the simplest explanation is usually the correct one (though there are many exceptions!)

So theories on the horse – if you look at the shape of a horses hoof without the ‘shoe’ it does form a shaped which if reduced to straight lines would be similar to that of this rune.
have a nosy on Google to see if anyone can see the shape too (I know I am stretching it a wee bit).

Also if you are sitting on a horse and looking towards its ears the M shape appears (like the two pointy ears) – I know these are really simple links of a horse to the shape, but the symbols maybe are just that simple?
 
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Grymdycche
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« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2011, 01:49:51 PM »

I'm a firm believer in Occam's Razor;  the more convoluted you have to twist something to get it to fit a theory,  the more leaps of association you're forced to make to get from Point A to Point B ..or  wherever, the more likely it is that the theory is incorrect. 

If you happen to question this as I do, what else do you think the shape might represent?  A bridle or saddle perhaps? Or maybe even the image of a horse from the front, the "V" being the horses head, the two outer staves the front legs? (I rather like this, myself.)
(This leaves us begging to ask what the rune for Laguz represents, but let's leave that for the Laguz board  Smiley )

Occam's Razor was the blade I was trying to remember the name of in my other post – spooky!  But I agree, in balance the simplest explanation is usually the correct one (though there are many exceptions!)

So theories on the horse – if you look at the shape of a horses hoof without the ‘shoe’ it does form a shaped which if reduced to straight lines would be similar to that of this rune.
have a nosy on Google to see if anyone can see the shape too (I know I am stretching it a wee bit).

Also if you are sitting on a horse and looking towards its ears the M shape appears (like the two pointy ears) – I know these are really simple links of a horse to the shape, but the symbols maybe are just that simple?
 

I hadn't thought of either of those, awesome!
Or, even just the horse's head and ears from the front, and neck

Or, less seriously- maybe it's the side view of a horse with a really, really, heavy person in the saddle.  Grin

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winter night
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« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2011, 03:10:59 PM »

Quote

I hadn't thought of either of those, awesome!
Or, even just the horse's head and ears from the front, and neck

Or, less seriously- maybe it's the side view of a horse with a really, really, heavy person in the saddle.  Grin


or the shaped of someones bowed legs after being in the saddle too long..!
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Mountain Witch
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« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2011, 04:20:22 PM »


or the shaped of someones bowed legs after being in the saddle too long..!

Nah, that's Uruz!
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winter night
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« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2011, 04:28:18 AM »


or the shaped of someones bowed legs after being in the saddle too long..!

Nah, that's Uruz!

 Cheesy hee hee!  - you are right!
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mcdee2005
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« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2011, 11:14:38 AM »

the shape for Ehwaz, quite similar to an M, has sometimes been identified as two horses facing each other, viewed from the side, touching noses. Probably many of you have read this too. 

Could this be the reason for the shape? Two warriors on horse back face to face having a conversation much like the scene in the old Westerns or Any film of a battle before the start of the 20th century where the Generals (read Noble Warriors / Princes) would ride out into the centre of the battle field, their horses nose to nose to offer each other the terms of surrender before a battle commenced?

As said this rune tends to represent harmony, teamwork, trust & loyalty.

All of those qualities that a leader of men would command from his army leading them into battle. Typically the leader of any force would have had the best looking horse (not necessarily the best horse) one which would be befitting of his stature. One which he would ride out to face the enemy with pride and surety installing confidence in his men

and yes Uruz is how we look after a long day in the saddle

McD
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Grymdycche
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« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2011, 01:52:55 PM »

Anythings a possibility, we'll probably never knew what someone had in mind when they worked on those shapes.  It doesn't help that the actual origin of the runes remains an educated best guess at best. Their origin may have more bearing on the shapes than the meanings, which could've been added later; or not -again, we may never know. Not that it should dissuade anyone from pondering them just the same.

My personal feeling is, though (and this of course is just me), if any rune represents two of anything face to face, it's Mannaz, which essentially resembles two Wunjos facing off.  We know that Wunjo is "joy", and also that the OERP Mannaz poem says "Man is a joy unto his fellow". 
So, I sort of see Mannaz like two people, stick figures, turned sideways, head to head, if you think of the top part as a head.

It's always interesting to look back at scholarly sources for other runes (there are Hungarian and Turkish runes, among others) or even other alphabets such as the Etruscan and find the similarities. Some of the shapes could even ultimately hail from ancient Greek, which in turn evolved from the original Phoenician.

BTW, I found a front view of a horse to illustrate my earlier idea. (I should be covered here by the Fair Use clause of copyright law)
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winter night
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« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2011, 03:25:07 PM »

this part of your quote Grymdycchr - 'Laguz is, after all, shaped like one half of Ehwaz.  Only..  Laguz means water or lake, not horse' - came to mind when Mcdee posted 'Two warriors on horse back face to face' (got me thinking about reflections (mirror image rune symbols).

Ehwaz might also represent a horse drinking from water (a lake?), so one half is actually Laguz, and Laguz is showing the reflection of the other half - the horse in Ehwaz.

I know, I am making a real meal of that one!  But I am going to have a good look at both to see if this link shows up between the two poems.

going to work zee little grey cells!

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Grymdycche
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« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2011, 04:40:29 PM »

this part of your quote Grymdycchr - 'Laguz is, after all, shaped like one half of Ehwaz.  Only..  Laguz means water or lake, not horse' - came to mind when Mcdee posted 'Two warriors on horse back face to face' (got me thinking about reflections (mirror image rune symbols).

Ehwaz might also represent a horse drinking from water (a lake?), so one half is actually Laguz, and Laguz is showing the reflection of the other half - the horse in Ehwaz.

I know, I am making a real meal of that one!  But I am going to have a good look at both to see if this link shows up between the two poems.

going to work zee little grey cells!

Well.. that's creative, I'll give you that!   Cool

But one thing: the reflection itself would nonetheless be a reflection of laguz, not a reflection of the horse -split in half, ehwaz looks like two laguz (water) symbols.

BTW, speaking of Laguz, in a different part of the forum, mcdee2005 posted the Sigrdrifumal, and within it, I got the impression  that maybe Laguz's shape may represent a rudder, or as it's called, a "steering blade". That seems reasonable.

But I'm still not completely convinced that the shapes necessarily relate to the meanings (at least, not in all cases), because -according to the best current scholarly research- the runes weren't created in a total, originating vacuum, so to speak, in Scandinavia or Germania, but ultimately were inspired by, or modeled from, possibly either the Etruscan alphabet or the Latin alphabet, among other candidates.
The "L" of the Etruscan alphabet is very similar to Laguz, for instance. it just has a little bend in the horizontal stave.  So we have to wonder if some of the original shapes and therefore meanings came from those cultures, though some may have been altered to fit the Germanic/Norse culture, over time.  No way to really know, sadly.



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midnightblue
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« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2011, 02:19:41 AM »

I think this is one of the runes where a bit of knowledge about the distant past can be a helpful thing.  It's fairly obvious it's a horse but to the ignorant they will just see it as a mode of transport, however if you know how horses were treated and regarded in the ancient world it brings on a whole new meaning.

A horse was so much more than just transport, it was a friend, they would live together, fight together and sometimes even sleep together.  There was a sense of oneness between a horse and his rider.

I think harmony, unity and working together is a good interpretation of this rune.
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