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Author Topic: Gebo - Impressions  (Read 11040 times)
Opal
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« on: February 18, 2011, 09:35:46 AM »

So today my rune of the day is Gebo. I've always liked Gebo because the first time I saw it it reminded me of a hug. I know, that's sounds like fluff, but still does.

It makes me think of wrapping (or being wrapped) in a great big bear hug. The really meaningful kind that you don't give (or get) very often from people you aren't close to unless something terrible has happened, like a loved one dying, or your house burning down, etc.

First impressions I think, can say a lot. Even more so because there isn't always a lot to go on  other than that and a little poem that has almost certainly lost something in time and translation, unless you're relying on other people's interpretations.

Giving the marks themselves personality is also how I tend to remember them (musical notes too! lol), but first audio impressions (reading/hearing) of the name of a rune itself could also be significant in your own understanding.

One of the most interesting things about runes to me is their outward simplicity, yet seemingly never ending layers of deeper meaning and connections.

What are/were your first impressions of Gebo from simply looking at it or reading/hearing it's name?
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ejfinch
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« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2011, 10:07:33 AM »

Hearing the name of Gebo brings to mind "warmth" as relates to an emotional warmth-similar to your "bear hug" analogy (which I like, btw). It just sounds very friendly and happy to me.
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Opal
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« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2011, 01:50:10 PM »

Hearing the name of Gebo brings to mind "warmth" as relates to an emotional warmth-similar to your "bear hug" analogy (which I like, btw). It just sounds very friendly and happy to me.

I like that! I'm very interested in impressions of hearing the name Gebo because it's one that I really never got anything from that way. I can see (er, hear lol) what you mean by warmth in it though. Smiley
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Grymdycche
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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2011, 01:10:19 PM »

First impressions I think, can say a lot. Even more so because there isn't always a lot to go on  other than that and a little poem that has almost certainly lost something in time and translation, unless you're relying on other people's interpretations.

Guys (Gals); I think we're already starting to drift some from the goal of the forum. I probably should've been more clear in the FAQ.
I don't begrudge anyone their own personal take on the runes, but the direction and spirit I intended for the forum was to avoid any new age sort of fluff while maintaining a focus on study and direct interpretation of the historical and scholarly sources for the runes, in accordance with their tradition and historical culture. The philosophy was for each individual to be able to go directly to the sources and interpret them for themselves as best as possible, rather than rely on a Llewellyn published "middle man" who often introduces aspects of his or her own belief system (and passes this off as "traditional". Letting the runes speak directly to you is one way to avoid this.

Being dismissive of the "little poems" however, is not a good way to kick the forum off. 

I think I understand the source of confusion perhaps.
Bear in mind that translation of the original language is not the same thing as interpretation, though they are cousins.
A translator makes an honest best effort to preserve the original meaning and spirit of the foreign texts without introducing personal views;  many modern rune authors, however, have gratuitously added their own belief systems into their book interpretations and thus inaccurately altered the original meanings.
It is the latter, and not the former, that I want to guard against.

Granted, the poems are quite ancient, but centuries old copies of even more ancient texts still exist written in the original native tongue; (for that matter, the language of Icelandic has changed very little in the past 1,500 years or so).
Additionally, the rune poems made heavy use of alliteration (in their native tongue), which, as a mnemonic, is a powerful aid in the preservation of the wording.
There is also a plethora of old Anglo Saxon, Norse, and Icelandic manuscripts, sagas, and eddas, all well preserved throughout the centuries, for which the only questionable aspect of their historically preserved integrity is probably the influx of Christian influences, which may have caused minor alteration in some words. ("God" substituted for Odin or Wotan, for example).

To get to the point, the old sources are reliable;  it's just that they're a bit esoteric because they're of a different age and a different culture.
That's the fun, mystery, and challenge of exploring the runes; to go directly to the old poems, the Havalmal, the Völuspá, the Grímnismál, etc.. and see how they - and the ancient authors who wrote them-  speak to you.

It's fine to also meditate on the shape or even the sounds of the runes; don't get me wrong, but I believe the ancient texts should be the primary, and not secondary, authority.
(If you wish to primarily go on intuition based on shape and sound, it'd probably be even more potent for you to create and identify with your own custom symbols.)

One other aside: we don't really necessarily know what the sound of each rune was. Many of the runes may not sound as they initially look, partly due to the great vowel shift of the middle ages, among other things.
Also, of course, each rune has multiple names, depending on the culture. (I need to work on putting them here)
If it helps though, this is, to date, the best rune pronunciation guide I've found for the reconstructed Old Germanic language for which the Elder Futhark is named.
http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/pronunciation.html
Pretty cool.





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Opal
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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2011, 09:12:22 PM »

@Grym,

Maybe I have not been clear. I did not mean to be dismissive of the poems at all. I was just curious as to different takes and first impressions different people might have had from the runes themselves. Not taking into account other authors or interpretations, so I'm not sure how fluff or Llewellyn got in there? I mentioned my first impression might sound fluffy, but that's just me and my first thoughts, no Llewellyn (or other books for that matter) involved there either.

My whole thought was to keep out the middle men. I guess I didn't realize I was a middle man too?

I'm mean I'm all for studying the ancient texts and taking the lead there, but having a personal connection with the meanings of each rune is part of how I'm learning and how they are useful to me. Otherwise I might as well be studying algebra.

"Letting the runes speak directly to you is one way to avoid this."

This is the vein I was aiming for, maybe I missed.

"To get to the point, the old sources are reliable;  it's just that they're a bit esoteric because they're of a different age and a different culture.
That's the fun, mystery, and challenge of exploring the runes; to go directly to the old poems, the Havalmal, the Völuspá, the Grímnismál, etc.. and see how they - and the ancient authors who wrote them-  speak to you."

I didn't mean to imply that they weren't reliable, just that there are language and cultural barriers.

"It's fine to also meditate on the shape or even the sounds of the runes; don't get me wrong, but I believe the ancient texts should be the primary, and not secondary, authority.
(If you wish to primarily go on intuition based on shape and sound, it'd probably be even more potent for you to create and identify with your own custom symbols.)"

I'm glad you somewhat approve of my personal practices? I wasn't aware there was only one  set way of studying permitted here. Don't get me wrong, I think the ancient original texts are very valuable and important, definitely a main focus, but also not the be all and end all of the story. To look at it that way, purely academically, is as bad as the fluffiest mix and match paganism imnsho.

"One other aside: we don't really necessarily know what the sound of each rune was. Many of the runes may not sound as they initially look, partly due to the great vowel shift of the middle ages, among other things.
Also, of course, each rune has multiple names, depending on the culture. (I need to work on putting them here)
If it helps though, this is, to date, the best rune pronunciation guide I've found for the reconstructed Old Germanic language for which the Elder Futhark is named.
http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/pronunciation.html
Pretty cool."

This is an excellent point which I failed to recognize and will be very excited to look into more thoroughly! Thank you for the link! Smiley
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ejfinch
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« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2011, 09:27:58 AM »

It seems that I must have misunderstood, as well. My apologies.
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Grymdycche
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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2011, 11:36:42 AM »

@Grym,

Maybe I have not been clear. I did not mean to be dismissive of the poems at all. I was just curious as to different takes and first impressions different people might have had from the runes themselves.
Opal, no harm done. 
I spoke up for one primary reason:
I don't really mind, or care, what your personal rune praxes are, and mediating on the runes directly as an additional method of knowing them is fine with me, but:
the thread appeared to be moving in a direction which advocated inner intuition over a factual and traditional foundation. 

Being that this forum is just kicking off,  I spent a lot of effort trying to attract not only average rune users but Runic scholars, Heathens, Vitkis, academics, etc.. I was concerned about the image this conveyed to potential future members. 
Here, the traditions and culture of the runes -the poems, the Eddas, the Lays- are sacrosanct.
History, Culture, Tradition. They are an inseparable part of the runes, they were born of a culture and speak of that culture.

It's just that when you say:

"..because there isn't always a lot to go on other than that and a little poem that has almost certainly lost something in time and translation, unless you're relying on other people's interpretations."

-that sounds like trivializing the rune poems to me.
That is what I objected to, not your meditation of the shape of the runes.

Incidentally, I don't equate translation from old Norse/Old English to Modern English with Interpretation. We have access to the original languages the rune poems (and Eddas) were written in. The translations (there are a few different ones) really don't vary at all, they're quite solid and consistent.

The Interpretations to be concerned about come from modern authors since the 1980s. (Well, there's also Guido Von List, from the turn of the 20th century, but that's another story)
So I disagree that they have truly lost anything to time and translation, it's just that it takes some searching of the material, and that searching will provide insight. I don't separate rune academics from rune divination or magic; the runes are the runes are the runes; knowledge is power.


Carry on!



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winter night
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« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2011, 07:00:41 AM »

I thought I would have a crack at my interpretation of the poem (which I hadn’t read prior to joining):  so here goes - and be nice to me you lovely people!  Cheesy

I interpret Gebo in two ways - the first that came to mind is it talks about if 'you' were broken. The second way I read it is the poem advising about how you should react when faced with ‘others’ who are broken.  I will try to explain!

You:  Even in the face of adversity, when everything has been taken, if you can still be selfless and generous to others then you will be rewarded and the respect and honour which this generates will provide the stepping stones to allow you to make your way out of adversity.  Hold your head up high and have respect for yourself, so that others will respect and believe in you.

‘others’: Does it tell of a tale that you should not judge the broken man?  – Don’t stamp on someone when they are down, help them without the need for praise and reward.

Even tough Gebo is labelled ‘the gift’ I don’t think it is as simple as something great coming your way – its about finding that greatness in you and others.  Through this you will be rewarded.

Even the ‘X’ has taken on a new meaning for me – prior to this it could be considered the ‘bow’ on that gift you are going to get, but I think in relation to what I have written, its more like a warning sign, an ‘X’ never fails to get attention.  And when illiterate people could not sign documents with their own written name, they retained their dignity with the act of signing the  ‘X’.  All they had but a piece of them all the same.

Now, would love to have anyone’s take on this and I am quite happy if you want to point out how un-poetic my interpretation it – I just wanted to do this without consulting books to see what comes out!
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Opal
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« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2011, 07:50:41 AM »


It's just that when you say:

"..because there isn't always a lot to go on other than that and a little poem that has almost certainly lost something in time and translation, unless you're relying on other people's interpretations."

-that sounds like trivializing the rune poems to me.
That is what I objected to, not your meditation of the shape of the runes.


Aha! My apologies! I can see how that can be taken that way. Relying on other interpretations is not something I wanted to suggest either. I must be more careful in future how I word things, getting tone right through typing is so difficult sometimes. Smiley

A side note.... I was also under the impression that the rune poems posted in each forum were indeed for discussion of said poem until you pointed out they were for reference only. Another reason I was going in a different direction.

Anyway! No harm no foul! I am having a wonderful time here thus far, thank you. Smiley
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Grymdycche
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« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2011, 10:47:44 AM »


Aha! My apologies! I can see how that can be taken that way. Relying on other interpretations is not something I wanted to suggest either. I must be more careful in future how I word things, getting tone right through typing is so difficult sometimes. Smiley

A side note.... I was also under the impression that the rune poems posted in each forum were indeed for discussion of said poem until you pointed out they were for reference only. Another reason I was going in a different direction.

Anyway! No harm no foul! I am having a wonderful time here thus far, thank you. Smiley

You're welcome, and I'm really glad we smoothed things out!
On the rune poem posts, to be honest, I wasn't quite sure how best to do that in the beginning  Undecided But ultimately, I figured, if the original poem posts became long threads, they might detract from future, separate threads for those same runes, so I left them there locked for reference's sake.  I hope this encourages members to make more of their own threads.

I thought I would have a crack at my interpretation of the poem (which I hadn’t read prior to joining):  so here goes - and be nice to me you lovely people!  Cheesy

I interpret Gebo in two ways - the first that came to mind is it talks about if 'you' were broken. The second way I read it is the poem advising about how you should react when faced with ‘others’ who are broken.  I will try to explain!

You:  Even in the face of adversity, when everything has been taken, if you can still be selfless and generous to others then you will be rewarded and the respect and honour which this generates will provide the stepping stones to allow you to make your way out of adversity.  Hold your head up high and have respect for yourself, so that others will respect and believe in you.

‘others’: Does it tell of a tale that you should not judge the broken man?  – Don’t stamp on someone when they are down, help them without the need for praise and reward.

Even tough Gebo is labelled ‘the gift’ I don’t think it is as simple as something great coming your way – its about finding that greatness in you and others.  Through this you will be rewarded.

Even the ‘X’ has taken on a new meaning for me – prior to this it could be considered the ‘bow’ on that gift you are going to get, but I think in relation to what I have written, its more like a warning sign, an ‘X’ never fails to get attention.  And when illiterate people could not sign documents with their own written name, they retained their dignity with the act of signing the  ‘X’.  All they had but a piece of them all the same.

Now, would love to have anyone’s take on this and I am quite happy if you want to point out how un-poetic my interpretation it – I just wanted to do this without consulting books to see what comes out!


WN,  I think your interpretation is spot-on beautiful!  Norse/Germanic culture was huge on generosity, honor, kinsmanship and sharing;  you see in in the poems for Fehu, and for Mannaz,  you see it in the Havalmal, you even see it in Beowulf; practically everywhere. The miserly and selfish were not well suffered.  Even their Kings were expected to be generous, and often judged by this as much as anything.
In fact, if you look at the center of Mannaz - the rune for humanity (and mortality) -you see Gebo!
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midnightblue
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« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2011, 02:32:34 AM »

I thought I would have a crack at my interpretation of the poem (which I hadn’t read prior to joining):  so here goes - and be nice to me you lovely people!  Cheesy

I interpret Gebo in two ways - the first that came to mind is it talks about if 'you' were broken. The second way I read it is the poem advising about how you should react when faced with ‘others’ who are broken.  I will try to explain!

You:  Even in the face of adversity, when everything has been taken, if you can still be selfless and generous to others then you will be rewarded and the respect and honour which this generates will provide the stepping stones to allow you to make your way out of adversity.  Hold your head up high and have respect for yourself, so that others will respect and believe in you.

‘others’: Does it tell of a tale that you should not judge the broken man?  – Don’t stamp on someone when they are down, help them without the need for praise and reward.

Even tough Gebo is labelled ‘the gift’ I don’t think it is as simple as something great coming your way – its about finding that greatness in you and others.  Through this you will be rewarded.

Even the ‘X’ has taken on a new meaning for me – prior to this it could be considered the ‘bow’ on that gift you are going to get, but I think in relation to what I have written, its more like a warning sign, an ‘X’ never fails to get attention.  And when illiterate people could not sign documents with their own written name, they retained their dignity with the act of signing the  ‘X’.  All they had but a piece of them all the same.

Now, would love to have anyone’s take on this and I am quite happy if you want to point out how un-poetic my interpretation it – I just wanted to do this without consulting books to see what comes out!


I agree with a lot of this.  Gebo is traditionally interpreted as the gift but this seems simplistic when one actually reads the poem.  When one hears gift one thinks of expecting a gift but this rune seems to be about giving to others, there also seems to be a sense of duty towards those less fortunate.
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